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===== PLBs, VHF, GPS, etc Discussion =====

**Safety radios.\\
bill** \\
02/10/15  #16840

I curious if anybody out there has one of these and if so how they feel about it?

http://www.nautiluslifeline.com

Bill

**Dale McKinnon** \\
02/10/15  #16841

Bill, I used an ACR personal EPRIB on my row south from Ketchikan in 2004, and it was specifically for those portion of my trip in exposed waters (Dixon Entrance, Rivers Inlet, Queen Charlotte Strait, etc).  Fortunately, I never had to use it. However, I did have to call for help on my northbound rowing trip to Juneau in 2005. I used my VHF (Standard Horizon) for that. If I were going to be elsewhere in the world (Pacific rim, coastal South America, etc.) I would most certainly consider Lifeline. But, since I row always within Canadian and US Coast Guard radio reception, I find my Standard Horizon VHF will get help to me faster than Lifeline will. The problem with GPS is the requirement that your location be in line with a satellite. With VHF, particularly in our "local" waters (Port Hardy to Astoria), I have access to federal and local agencies even with a 5-watt push. The CGs have powerful antennae that can pick up the weakest of signals. And it doesn't have to be line-of-sight.\\
You might want to read the following review of several emergency locators: http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Personal-Locator-Beacon-Reviews/buying-advice\\
Dale McKinnon

**bill**

02/10/15  #16842

Thanks Dale,

I have a Standard Horizon HX851 with DSC and needed to use it on a let's say, less than successful day paddling. Both the VHS and DSC functions worked as advertised, but that was in a very populated area.

My read of the Lifeline is that is just a simplified version of the DCS radio I have but in a truly waterproof case,  smaller and more compact. I don't see that It has any two way communication with satellites. It is only a 1.8 watt radio with a Chanel 16 and 68 and a DSC function that broadcasts your GPS acquired position via VHS repeaters to all DSC enabled VHS stations plus the Cost Guard.  It's not a satellite based PLB but a simple, stout waterproof GPS enabled VHS (DCS) radio.  At least that what I think it is... The specks on it are a tech thin.

For my purposes it seems ideal. While my HX851 has been reliable, its JIS7 waterproofness is only barely waterproof and saltwater is hard on such things. Because of that and the difficult interface of the HX851, I just bought the upgraded version the HX870. Besides a better interface (I hope) and battery, I get a whole extra 1 foot of waterproofness, Woo hoo!  It's now JIS 8 (5 feet for 30 min),  still marginal IMHO.  It's still a huge radio, hence my interest in the Lifeline.

Really my biggest concern about the lifeline is the 1.8 watt radio. I realize there are other things that make a bigger difference that just watts, like your radios hight and the receiving antennas hight, but 1.8 watts seems kinda week ( the HX851 and HX870 are both 6 watts). Especially when your antennas hight might only be 1 foot out of the water in an emergence it seems to me you want as many watts as you can get.

I was just curious if anyone had used one of these or had an opinion.

Bill

**Reivers Dustin**

02/10/15  #16851

It says it is a VHF radio.  $300.  Somebody in our gang needs to try this dude.  This is looks like the right direction.

1.85 watts won't transmit voice very far.  But I'm not interested in chatting with people.  Getting a position to the C.G. is the main thing, then maybe talk them in once you have visual.

It's little and I don't like hoisting my belly over my big floating VHF doing re-entrys.

rd

**bill** \\
02/11/15  #16854

Yeah, what rd said... Quick! Someone go buy one.

I don't have any great urge to chat with other paddlers while on my ski and having channel 16 - 68 and DSC should be enough to cover any rescue situations.  In my misadventure the radios part was very important.

The problem with DSC is that people need to have a radio that can receive the DSC distress AND most importantly, know how to use there radios DSC 'navigate too waypoint' function. On the two radios I have used with DCS it was not intuitive.  If you can't do that, its of no more value than any old VHF radio. In the case of my HX851 I would need to review the manual weekly to remember how to use that function as my brain seems to not be accepting any new information these days. Hence my getting the new HX870 with the better interface.

So in my unintended adventures at sea I'm not sure how much the DCS helped. I contacted the CG first by radio and asked then several times if I should use the DSC for a more accurate position.  They said yes but I kinda felt like I bugged them into it. They put out a "calling all vessels, assistance needed"  broadcast and when vessels responded I spoke to them and guided them too me with the CG just standing buy.  At one point during the adventure someone asked the CG for my GPS location. The CG repeated it to them twice.  Even with the DCS activated and me on the radio repeatedly giving my basic position there was still radio chatter saying I was off West Point or Alki, miles away!

My point here is that I'm not sure how much in my case the DSC helped (in my case). Everyone was asking me where I was in relation to various things around and apparently no one was making a B-line for me by using there DSC enabled radios 'navigate to waypoint' feature . I do know at least one of the people that plucked me out of the water had a HX851 on his hip and was conversing with the CG on it, but didn't think to ask him if he used it in finding me at the time.  I think DSC is a super idea and system but the 'navigate to waypoint' function needs to be super simple, obvious and idiot proof to function successfully.

So considering how important the VHS radio was i my situation in direction boats that ether didn't have or didn't know how to use there DCS functionality, I'm not sure I want to give up the wattage.  I know I was speaking with people in boats that were 5-6 miles away with my radios antenna maybe a foot above the water. I assume that was because of repeaters?

That said I really don't know how much difference 1.8 vs 6 watts really makes. Any ham buffs out there or people with super secret radio math info they want to share?

Bill

**Reivers Dustin**

02/11/15  #16855

I was team commo. in a past life: army.  We used 5w C.W. (morse code) for team reports 200 miles back to base using ionisphere skip.  Note:  this is gone like horses from the army today.

2 watts vs. 6 watts is huge especially in this situation where antanna is basically at counterpoise (on sea surface).  The coast guard's buried antanna array can hear dang near anything.   But there is no auto-relay, it's all voice re-broadcast.  So talking to other boats will suffer.  This is sketchy anyway, like the deal where each person tells the next person the message.

Most of the end user DSC stuff is beyond the average tech level (including me).  But, I want to emphasize:  the C.G. has legal possesion of your coordinates when you push DSC distress.  As you may have found, getting help from average boaters can be pretty much of a clown show.  But our business of farting around in open water is no joke.  You really want to establish that solid baseline data with what is called, the "Authority Having Jurisdiction".  Because the C.G. first line is usually the new guy stuck with radio watch, there's a headache period where they verify the incident and internally process (response authority, alternative rescue, and if they must respond directly process a risk evaluation document and a develop a response plan).  Don't read this as dep't of beuraucracy dep't.  These guys and gals are fanatically dedicated to their work.  It's just the modern world.

As we've said a radio is last line of defense anyway.  We try our best to never be that close to "shuffling off this mortal coil".\\
rd
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