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-public access vs private property\\
+==== Juan de Fuca Race 2011 ====
-Reivers Dustin\\
-/09/11  #10816
-My understanding is that from the water, a boater can make entry to the shore up to the mean high tide line.  This is even true on rivers and larger lakes.  Although there is not a clear line on fresh water bodies.  Some of the San Juans are wildlife preserve where other rules overturn normal rules of access.  Some property owners out there are not interested in the rule of law.
+**Juan de Fuca downwinder......\\
+Larry Goolsby** \\
+/12/11  #10825
-One reason to bring this up is the case where you have boat trouble, or someone you are with does.
+This being my first trip over to Port Angeles for the downwinder, it became a great learning experience. I was going for the ride, not the race. A big contingent from Bellingham was there along with several other Whatcom Paddler members. The best times that I've ever experienced on the water were when Reivers and I did a series of downwinders on S.F. Bay and in the Gorge. That was what I wanted when I showed up at Freshwater Bay. There were a number of paddleboards and kayaks there and they were started 15 minutes ahead of the rest of us. A highlight of the day was when Whales appeared in freshwater bar shortly before the race began. Judging by the direction they were moving, I wondered if we would pass by them on the way to the finish line - we didn't.
-On Lake Whatcom, the property plates show ownership far out into the water. There is an owner near our first turn who will harrass any swimmers that stray over 'his' propery.
+The wind picked up as expected but died just a little before the start of the race. We had 1 -2 footers that were pushing at an angle toward the shore. When the horn blared, we took off out to deeper water in search of bigger waves going in the direction we needed. It was not the amusement ride that I wanted, but it added a new challenge to the race. Supposedly, there was a buoy placed off shore at a point about 4.5 miles east of the start and we were supposed to pass inside that buoy. I never did find that buoy and neither did Reivers.
-Just wondering what the reality might be.  If it's bothersome I'll revert back to my fantasy world.
+It was around this point when I passed all the paddleboards and most of the kayaks. There was still about 6+ miles to go to Ediz Hook for the finish. In order to get there, we had to angle back out to deeper water once again. By now, everyone was so spread out that I could see Reivers pfd far in the distance and that was all. We appeared to be way outside most of the pack. The waves here increased to 2 -3 footers with the occasional 4 footer. I set my sights on Reivers  and tried closing the large gap he'd made. Somehow, he had figured out how to cheat and hadn't shared it with me. I made the decision to go even further out than he had in order to catch a better line. The further out I went, so did he. About 1 to 2 miles before the finish, the waves got bigger and were carrying me right to the finish. This was probably the best part of the entire race. However, it was so mixed up with shore echo, I knew that the paddleboards were going to get tossed around.
-rd
+Eric Grossman suddenly appeared after having gone in close to the hook. He must have caught an eddy near shore because he walked right past us on his way to the finish. I crossed the line a few minutes behind Reivers, and we made the decision to paddle around the hook to get a good look at it. That took us about 25 extra minutes and we had to do the last 1+ mile upwind. I didn't stay long enough to find out who won the race, and I can only guess. In attendance was Barton, Gabe, Ian, Erik B., and Don K., so it was probably one of them. As soon as my boat was loaded, I took off to catch a ferry back to Whidbey and didn't stay for the dinner or drawings.
-Reply\\
+So I did not get the amusement ride that I hoped for, but it was still a really good strategic race. You had to use your head in this race to get from Point A to Point B and work the waves to your advantage. Bill Walker did a good job of putting this thing together and gave detailed instructions on where to go and when. The ferry ride only cost me $14.50 each way, which I consider affordable. There's a lot to see over on the penninsula and I wished that I'd made a three day trip out of it.\\
-Like\\
+LG
-More\\
-steven wort\\
-/09/11  #10817
-I recall a similar qu coming up a while back on a differnt DL.  The best answer I got indicated that state water laws vary state by state.  Those states with a big cattle background tended to sell total water rights to land owners.  Those states without cattle kept water rights as a common resource.\\
+**allipp01** \\
-\\
+/12/11  #10829
-Given that a lot of our local lakes are actually man made, its possible that landowners do "own" the land under the lake, and so "own" the water sitting on top of their property line?\\
-\\
-Would be interesting to hear what the story is when life is at risk due to boat trouble, or adverse weather?  And what "rights" do property owners have to do harm to "trespassers" if thats the correct term for someone encroaching on private property?\\
-\\
-~Steve\\
-\\
-To: whatcompaddlers@...\\
-From: reivers@...\\
-Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:43:03 +0000\\
-Subject: [whatcompaddlers] public access vs private property
-My understanding is that from the water, a boater can make entry to the shore up to the mean high tide line. This is even true on rivers and larger lakes. Although there is not a clear line on fresh water bodies. Some of the San Juans are wildlife preserve where other rules overturn normal rules of access. Some property owners out there are not interested in the rule of law.
+Good description of the race Larry, but I'd have to mention that Eric Grossman didn't catch an eddy to pass you at the finish. He was ahead of you the entire race and had great surfing runs with no lucky course choice being a factor.
-One reason to bring this up is the case where you have boat trouble, or someone you are with does.
+There was no clear cut advantage of any course as I found at times the outside ran and at other times the inside did.  Reivers, Eric and I had a battle the whole race, with Reivers on the outside, Eric in the middle and me on the inside.  Between the three of us, the lead changed several times, with me pulling in front of those two when I crossed the sediment filled Elwha river water, only to be passed by Eric a ways after that, and then Reivers just befor the finish as he dropped down from outside with a better finishing angle.
-On Lake Whatcom, the property plates show ownership far out into the water. There is an owner near our first turn who will harrass any swimmers that stray over 'his' propery.
+**Michael Gregory** \\
+/12/11  #10830
-Just wondering what the reality might be. If it's bothersome I'll revert back to my fantasy world.
+Despite all the rivalry, the "Downwinder" from Freshwater Bay (where the Orcas greeted us) to the far side of Ediz Spit in Port Angeles passed into legend yesterday.  Ten miles of wind, waves, sunny skies, and phat quartering runs.  The racers numbered World Champs and mugs alike.  Thanks for the great opportunity to paddle out there, to Bill Walker and all his crew.
-rd
+Mike G.
-\\
+**dnjacobson79** 06/12/11  #10831
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-Michael Lee <mlee@...>\\
-/09/11  #10818
-You would likely need to speak with an attorney who specializes in property rights and land use issues in the State of Washington.
+Yes, big thanks to the race organizers for hosting a fun downwinder!  Sunny weather, whales, great BBQ, fun had by all!
-Some states, such as California, are classified as “wetsand” states, which mean that everything below the mean high tide line is public property.  Since many islands and beaches in this state are deemed private, I’m betting that Washington has a different definition of public property as it relates to waterfront and beachfront access.
+A couple of us stayed around PA today hoping it would blow again, it didn't, but we had a good paddle and saw more whales.
-My advice would be to show the harassing property owner your white ass and swim away.
+Found that Salt Creek campground is a GREAT place to crash when out that way.  I think some B'ham folks got rejected from the 5pm ferry (RD & Allen?), hope your guys made it back OK.....\\
+-DJ
-ML
+**Reivers Dustin** 06/13/11  #10832
-toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
+Max ebb at 4:00pm.  About 200 yards offshore from Ediz hook it was flowing quite fast. Since this was 'counter-flow' the waves were pretty big.  I don't know if there was a 'back-eddy' along the shore, but it sure looked like it from where I was.  Eric just motored past me while I was out there surfing along like glory days.
-Reply\\
+After the finish I had the foolish illusion that I wasn't tired.  So LG and I went out in the stacked waves thinking we could ride around the end and be in the lee coming back up the inside.  Bit of a mistake: rides were slow, I was hammered flat and it was all I could do to claw my way up to that boat dock.  My frozen legs took a beating carrying the boat up to the car and I'm still limping around today.
-Like\\
-More\\
-Dale McKinnon\\
-/09/11  #10819
-Private shoreline property in the State of Washington extends into tideland. These property rights are the legacy of the early territory days of shellfish plantations and commercial harvesting rights. You do not have the right to land on anyones shoreline property, regardless of tide height in Washington.\\
+Great race, all the ingredients.  Very hard to find the perfect line.  Current and wave advantages came and went in different places.  Beautiful venue, challenging conditions, dedicated organizers, excellent BBQ chicken/burgers/brownies (not BBQ brownies silly), TONS of schwag.  It reminded me of 'Round Shaw race being more personal - less formal.
-However, if a mariner is in distress or danger they cannot be denied the safety of land, regardless of property ownership. This happened to me once in 2002 on the northshore of Orcas. I had to land because I was hit with a nasty case of food poisoning and the land owner angrily told me to get off his property, he didn't care what was happening with me and would call Island County Sheriff if I didn't leave immediately. I asked him to please call paramedics. He was adamant I leave. I called the CG on my VHF.\\
-After it was sorted out a day later, the CG and Island Co. Sheriffs told me they would talk with the land owner and explain that maritime exigencies trump property rights. They also, in a friendly way, explained the history of shoreline rights in WA.\\
-This is why I prefer rowing in Canada. The shoreline is federal/provincial land and available to all on the water.\\
-toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-Reply\\
+Eric Grossman! - you on the message board?  What have you been eating for breakfast dude?
-Like\\
-More\\
-Larry <lbussing@...>\\
-/10/11  #10822
-Its both.  I used to have a map from the state that showed what shorelines were private and what were public.  I'll have to try and find it.  It was a mixed bag.  You probably have a fair number of land owners who claim private shorelines when in fact they aren't, but that is a different story.  Larry B
+rd
+**Eric Grossman** \\
+/13/11  #10833
+Aloha,\\
+that was a fun race everyone, thank you and big mahalos to Bill and Elwha support team.
+Gabe and I ate peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on baguette at the camp site for breakfast. no big.
+I dont know if I found that different of an eddy than those inside me, I simply headed strait for Pt. Angeles inside the group of 4 or 5 ahead of me on the outside who ventured for more wind and just outside Gary, Ian and Alan. It was awesome to watch Ian shadowing every fast twitch turn Gary made to loose him - they stair-stepped about 10 times 90-degrees out then 90-degrees in catching waves, trying to drop each other (and turning on a dime- how did you do that?). Since the waves were not that big, I decided to go coastal, in hopes of finding more waves breaking near shore and was surprised to find what I thought was land at the Pt Angeles really just the turbid plume of the Elwha River and some fun sliders in there. The entire race I could hear Alan breathing down my neck and then at the Elwha River, he got some great waves shooting ahead of me. Reivers was just behind DJ and Kristen and about a quarter click ahead of me on the outside at the Elwha and I just found great waves especially along the hook and breakwall where it was a little sloppier but some good connectors.
+Reivers and LG usually reminisce about the cookies after such races, but the De Fuca Downwinder ROCKED with most excellent brownies! thanks again,\\
+Eric\\
+ooooo EXCUSE ME I DON'T MEAN TO IMPOSE, BUT I AM THE OCEAN ooooo
+**Reivers Dustin** \\
+/13/11  #10834
+AHA!
+That must have been Jiffy Peanut Butter.  That explains it all.
+rd

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