Surfski Knowledge Base

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===== Safety/Safety Gear Discussion =====

**How do you carry your safety gear?\\
zach** \\
05/18/18  #22997

Hey guys - Zach Handler here (currently in Minnesota, but a former B'ham resident). I am wondering how you guys carry all your safety electronics. We only get about a half dozen downwind days in a year here, much less than you guys, so maybe you have things figured out better than I do. Here is what I carry on a downwind: phone in a clear plastic dry bag, VHF, and PLB (one of those yellow McMurdo ones). I carry all 3 of those things in the front pouch of my Mocke PFD. My garmin watch I carry on the footstrap of the ski. (Garmin is a safety gear here because the destination is usually over the horizon and you need the arrow navigation function to get there). At any rate, all that crap in the front pocket of the PFD is a bit much. It allows for a normal paddle stroke (just barely) but it barely fits in the pocket and it does add extra challenge to remounting. I used to strap some of that stuff to the bungees in front of the footplate, but have since learned that is bad situation if the leash fails.  What do you guys do? Do you carry that much stuff? We don't have coast guard on these large inland lakes, so I don't know if that changes the equation at all. What about the VHF with combined GPS and beacon capabilities? is that of any use without a coast guard boat on the water?

Thanks for any insight!

**zach** \\
05/18/18  #22998

I forgot to mention flares and a strobe light. Sometimes I cram that stuff in my PFD too. Obviously you have to draw the line somewhere on how much stuff to bring. where do you guys draw the line?

**Nicholas Cryder** \\
05/18/18  #22999

Hey Zach,

Our Wildcat run is fairly contained, lots of marine traffic and a CG base at the end of the run and near shore. Not everyone does the WC run, most opt for laps because of our marine geography. So while that's not a reason to skip safety equipment it does make some of it (PLB) redundant. The PLB is has been discussed ad nauseam, but for sake of summary by the time the satellite crew comes looking for you, there will only be your boat and a bright bobber waiting for them (so most of us use a marine radio or a cell phone in a dry case by virtue of speed of response).

I think we've done remarkably well safety wise as a community for how much time of exposure we get in wind and cold water, and I think it's a mix of factors that help keep us safe beyond equipment choice; Stepping stone of conditions and bodies of water to learn in, a fairly deep bench of guys who can be out in just about anything and looking out for others. And of course most important a number of us (myself included) who just don't go out above our threshold (my winter time limit is gusting to mid-30's). The luxury of lots of wind is that we can be picky about what we paddle in, it's no big deal to skip a big day or a run if you're just not feeling it.

Nicholas Cryder

**allipp@...**

05/18/18  #23000

The question I ask is who will come save you if you get in trouble and call for help on any of those devices?  Here we have the Coast Guard readily available that's why we prefer to use the VHF radio.  In Hawaii nearshore waters the Fire Department have rescue crews with boats and they keep in contact the lifeguard stations with jet skis. Hence, cell phones are the preferred choice over there.

Is there any agency there in Minnesota that is in charge of rescues in the lakes there, or would an emergency call have to be passed on multiple times until they are able find someone that can launch a boat or chopper to come to your rescue?

**Larry Bussinger** \\
05/18/18  #23001

We used to have a mantra here, " Going over is not an option".  Now it's you don't go without a leash.  That means your leash does not fail.  Design it so it doesn't!  We have robust systems and I check mine over twice a week. Mine is a waist leash.  JD, down at the Gorge, would personally check all leash systems before he ran the race.  I've seen those Velcro leashes pulled apart because they had grass on them or were worn out.  I also will not go with anyone not wearing one.  Having to rescue someone is also dangerous and much worse if they have no boat.  Having said that, then some items might be able to go in a dry bag attacked to the boat. You should also consider using a paddle lease so your hands can be kept free to use a radio.\\
The VHF is probably your best bet on the lake because your best bet for rescue is a a power boat in your vicinity monitoring Ch 16.  Also, flares are not much good!  Most do not go off, they don't last but for a few seconds, and you can't tell where they are fired from within a several mile radius.  Use a smoke bomb.  They can be seen farther and better and last longer.  A signaling mirror can also be seen from several miles away.\\
VHF should probably be on your person.  I have carried mine in the back pouch using a lanyard to retrieve it.  I put a foot long hose over the antenna to keep it from hanging up.  I practiced pulling it out to make sure it would come free.  The VHF is also good for directing a boat in sight and in contact directly to you.  Saves time in the search.\\
Larry B

**Reivers Dustin** \\
05/18/18  #23003

LB is our 'inspector gadget' of paddling gear.  Keeping your front clear to ease re-entry is huge.  I haven't been able to do as well as LB with the VHF stowage.  But, in general it helps me to think of the safety considerations as layers.  I saw this applied to paddling in an ancient book by Blackburn.  The pros will do a JSA (job safety analysis) in writing for each and every operation.  The C.G. gets 30 minutes from receipt and validation of a "mayday" to rescue vessel launch.  I'm nervous about 'vessel in the vicinity' type aid.  Many boaters are extraordinary sailors, but a goofball with a powerboat can be troublesome.  Thing is, we are highly leveraged on our gear and our ability.  You know, blow a shoulder or drop a rudder and shit ahoy matey.  So I obsess over my gear, scan the conditions like I was Jason Bourne and think all the time about my "exit & egress" choices.  It's tedious to read other peoples version of Layers of Safety so I'll spare everyone.  Mostly.  My first layer is the sea state.  (In other words like Nicholas said, have a limit in mind).  Second layer is my own condition.  If you are still reading you might notice that these first two are highly variable.  The remaining layers of safety will be left as an exercise for the student.  Grading will be, ahem, -  "pass/fail".

rd

**zach** \\
05/18/18  #23004

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys. We all carry vhf, but it is strictly to communicate with each other, because there is nobody on shore or on the water monitoring channel 16. The main deal is we try to never lose sight of each other. If I am ahead I am looking back for the other surfskis every minute or so. The instant I dont see them on my quick glance I stop and look up wind scanning in all directions. If i don’t see them within a minute I am on the vhf and we all stop what we are doing and figure out how to regroup. The confusion comes if someone has snuck ahead but still thinks that they others are ahead, so they speed up,  and the others think that the guy that snuck ahead is still behind them, so they slow down.  I do find it unnerving when I downwind in other parts of the country and the paddlers hit the water and scatter like cats in a thunderstorm.

I should get in the water in a downwind and see if I can make a phone call while bobbing next to the boat. I have never tried that. Cell service is not perfect up there, but that is probably the best way to get help. It would just be a 911 call.

To be totally honest I am not sure what would happen If I activated my PLB. The one time we needed a rescue the sheriff said it was too windy for the helicopter to fly. My crude understanding of the PLB is that it transmits both a Latitute/longitude coordinate as well as generating some sort of a locally broadcast honing signal that someone with the correct reciever can follow. But I don’t know if any vessel with that sort of capability would be put on the water.

When I put this all down in writing it makes our downwinding seem pretty damn reckless.

**Paul Reavley** \\
05/18/18  #23005

Zach,

FWIW - two cents from a beginner without any experience downwinding or in open water. I greatly appreciate these discussions for the expression of all of the experience and techniques and relevant judgement that are involved in choosing what may be safe or not, how to avoid excessive risk and what measures may be useful when/if all precautions have failed. From previous discussions on this board I have come to greatly respect the caution expressed by our experienced open water paddlers who have clearly learned from some of the mistakes and close calls in their past.

Avoiding the need to use last ditch technology is a paramount objective. But one still should carry such backup devices because as many have already mentioned there is an array of mechanical or human failures that can circumvent the best laid plans and preparation. Still any kind of excessive faith in emergency devices can be dangerous both because they can fail also and such faith can lend itself to inadequate emphasis on the boating skills and judgement that reduce the likelihood of winding up in distress in the first place. The emphasis on possessing adequate skill and experience to judiciously choose and deal with one's boating conditions should come first and foremost.

Still I wonder whether enough methodology has been developed for self-rescue techniques and equipment for individual surfskiers and groups of surfskiers. I believe that it should be possible to design or improve on some simple, non-encumbering equipment that could greatly enhance the possibility of self-rescue beyond remount. (I realize this is all easier said than done particularly as the water gets seriously rougher) Tow lines and ways of connecting two surfskis together have been mentioned in the past on this board. I suspect there is potential for more ingenious options of this kind. But as I have already said - I would never want anyone to rely on the possession of such equipment instead of developing the skill and judgement that substantially reduces the likelihood of needing to use such equipment in the first place. It is quite possibly inevitable that some inexperienced paddlers would/will excessively rely on such equipment if available - to their greater peril, but I suspect that the development of better self-rescue tech might be a net positive.

On a slightly different note, carefully checking one's leash condition (cord, velcro) has been mentioned. Are there any body-boat leashes that are considered particularly strong/reliable or less susceptible to weakened velcro holding power? What sort of duration do folks employ leashes before they automatically replace them with new ones? Can leashes be substantially weakened by the stress of rough water ejections?

Paul Reavley

**njcooksey@ymail.com**

05/19/18  #23006

I'd find out what the actual response time is for your PLB. It can be many hours in which case it's really a body recovery tool.\\
When sea kayaking I have a strobe lashed to the shoulder strap of my PFD. You can get small ones with made just for that purpose.\\
Like others said about flares, they are useless. Every year my kayak group use to set off all our flares as a test and we never got over 50% success and even then they are only good at night for about 10 seconds.

The only time I've rescued someone in my surfski, I used Siri on my phone to call my wife to have her come pick us up at the new takeout. Holding down one button is easy through a dry bag compared to actually dialing. We had to do the rescue  because they got so cold they could no longer stay upright. A newer paddler without much DW experience and under dressed for their skill level, and the conditions.

The one safety item you didn't mention is a full wetsuit. Many people here wear a full suit in cold weather downwind conditions. They add a large safety margin and make it much more likely that you won't need all the other stuff. If you are under dressed, it doesn't take many immersions before your arms no longer function and your balance is bad enough you can't stay upright.

**John Rybczyk**

05/19/18  #23007

When I think back to all of the surf ski rescues of which I have direct knowledge in our little corner of the downwind world, I cannot not think of a single incident that would have happened if the paddler had been in a fatter boat, like an Epic V8 for example.  I'm talking about skilled paddlers who fell out in big conditions and then, most typically, could not successfully remount. With a V8, that same paddler would likely not have fallen in and, if they had, they would have likely remounted successfully. Nick Murray, famous Great Lakes surf skier and Molokai Challenge finisher, can ride and surf any boat you throw at him.  In the lonely winter, up there in the cold midwest, he paddles a V8 because the chances for a timely rescue if things go south are essentially zero. The best way to get yourself out of trouble is to not get in trouble in the first place.

**bill**

05/19/18  #23008

If everyone has DSC enabled VHF radios there is a function that can direct you to anyone who activates the emergency mode.  When you activate the emergency function it sends out a signal with the senders GPS coordinates and all  DSC enabled radios that are on and within range and it logs it as a waypoint. You can then use the go too function and use your radio to find the person.

At least in the Standard Horizon HX870 hand held there is also an auto pooling function that will let you keep track of other location. If you have everyone’s MMSI# logged into your radio you can ask it for position of any of the MMSI#'s logged. I think you can then chose the go to function to find that person.  But... I have never done this stuff and it’s only from memory so look it up. My radio is not in my possession at the moment so I can’t check.

The Standard Horizon HX870 has all sorts of features and capabilities but they take a lot of time to learn and understand and coordinate with people who also must understand how to use the features and have all the MMSI#'s loaded...etc. And worse... everything is buried in menus and submenus, so not very easy to uses in a ski even on the calmest days. Maybe ok if rafted up but who does that in delicate skis.  So a DSC enabled radio can keep track of other DSC enabled radios and direct you to them even without sending out an emergency destress signal, plus its able to send out an emergency signal with your GPS coordinates to any one with a DSC radio and any repeaters and direct them to you if they bothered to learn how to use it. But using it in a ski might be too hard.

Bill

**Michael Medler** \\
05/19/18  #23009

Hey Bill,\\
I have had a little experience trying use a radio in a ski in 30 plus wind. I can assure you very few of us could even get our eyes onto the radio in those conditions. Even paddling one handed while barking 2 panicked words at a time into your radio is full adventure for man of my modest balance.\\
Michael

**Nicholas Cryder** \\
05/19/18  #23010

Good point John. I often go with a V8Pro on the big winter days or when I doing a DW clinic with someone else. Trying to do a rescue or even verbally assist in a v12 or v14 is just way harder then something with acres of primary. I mentioned earlier that I now carry a pull rope system at all times, I’ll post some pics of it’s latest iteration when I get back.\\
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text

--\\
Nicholas Cryder

**Toby Cooper** \\
05/19/18  #23012

Hi Guys from beautiful Orcas Island.

I appreciate this discussion from the B’ham paddlers, who are totally the fittest, fastest, friendliest paddlers that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.

We lost a paddler on SF Bay where I came from a few years ago, and the SF paddlers have given a lot of thought to this as well.  This was an experienced athlete paddling with two of our sport’s powerful names we all know.  Best guess is that he went in and either his leash released or he had become tangled and let it go to try to un-tangle.  The others were just ahead and had no knowledge of what happened.

As you all recognize, in rough and cold conditions, our ability to actually employ radios, cell phones, or much of anything else deteriorates shockingly fast.  So we agreed that the best practice was to,  1. File a float plan with the coasties or someone else responsible, and, 2. Stay together.  On SF Bay, Coast Guard response is about as good as anywhere.

(I do not know how much people actually stick to these good guidelines.  Like skydivers and extreme snowboarders, yes we are a reckless bunch.)

In addition, I proposed one more idea in California and will do so here.  I got a Horizon HX870 with all its genius features, but at West Marine they told me you could add one more device, namely a VOX (voice-activated) mic.    Waterproof enough?  I do not know.  Certainly expensive.  But how cool would this be if it worked?  Not only a great asset to safety but keeping live-chatter going with a group would be kind of fun.  “Nice wave.”  “White whale attacking from starboard . . .”  “Hey Cryder, major toilet paper stuck on your rudder.”

Anyway, great conversation topic over beer.

Toby Cooper

**Reivers Dustin**

05/19/18  #23013

Some great points.  I'll try to stay on point here.  I bought the VOX mic.  Thought I could remote mount the VHF - didn't work.  Reason:  VHF and perhaps cell phone are last layer of safety.  It means everything else isn't working as needed (clothing, skills, etc.)  I've done two 'mayday' calls and both had somewhat happy endings.  The one situation cost the young man his boat and he never paddled again.  He was hospitalized but no lasting harm to him.  I learned an ass-ton of stuff.  As others have said, but I'll be blunt:  every strap, string, buckle and item on you and the boat will be your enemy when shit goes awry.  It was amazing how I fumbled with the radio, paddle, leash PFD etc.  while making the mayday call.  The dispatch and the rescue vessel both wanted to keep me on-air so they could maintain radio fix and verify the situation.  I had to tell them I could not talk and keep my butt safe at the same time.  It was VERY BIG conditions and I found that I could sit side-saddle as well as feet out to the sides comfortably.  This was major since I didn't think it would work like that.  I had a paddle leash.  Very important because there was almost no way to hold the paddle and talk on the radio (wind would carry me or the paddle - I chose to let paddle go).  I had help from my buddy LG who had to recover a loose paddle.  He can explain how really hard that was (he is left hand feather and the lost paddle was R.H.)  I was able to make a diving catch of the runaway boat because I had a paddle leash.  Now I'm in the water holding two boats and the others (LG and rescue guy) can't swim fast enough to get to me - due to wind.  So I grabbed boats by nose and kicked toward them.  No way to hold a paddle or anything at that point.  After getting guy back on boat (he could not sit upright).  I was able to remount and use radio to vector in the rescue boat.  They could not see us until they were very close (but I could see them).  One big variable to this is Stern Leash.  As Duncan says, the conditions that put you off are still active.  Doing remounts broadside to waves is troublesome.  Stern Leash is a newer idea and I've put this system on all my boats.  I've used for self rescue in big stuff and love it.  But don't know how this would affect multi boat rescue.  OC boats are powerful rescue platform.  Surfski not so much.  This is a big reason I pack a VHF.  Not for self rescue, but to keep me from having to over-extend my ability and to avoid rescue of a non cooperative or disabled person.  First responders get training about "tunnel vision" and it's cousin panic.  There is no indication or warning.  We can't see it in our self and can't see it in another.  As a group we've done multiple boat rescue and have practiced carrying two paddlers on a single surfski.  It can work, but it takes two very sensible calm people.  I would call surfski to surfski rescue "heroic effort" and should be avoided if at all possible. However, I could never leave someone in trouble on the water.  So.  Maybe add a layer here:  make friends with a power boat driver where you are leveraging yourself "out there".  rd

**zach** \\
05/20/18  #23017

A little follow up - we did a downwind on Mille Lacs yesterday. On the topic of safety, we got up there and I realized I had forgotten my surf rudder and I just had a weedless. It is a 2 hour drive each way. We talked about it and decided to go ahead. The plan was as always, never lose sight of each other and if anyone is having trouble for any reason we all stick together to help. Wind was 20mph gusting to 30, waves 3-4 ft mostly, increasing to 4-6 in the last few miles. As it turned out the weedless rudder was perfectly adequate, but that is because we had an almost straight downwind shot. If we'd had to side angle much I would have been broaching a lot.

Anyway, I did get a chance to try my cellphone, and it did not go well. I hopped into the water and stupidly, decided to call my wife to say hi. I was not thinking about the panic this could cause if the call was broken up. The air and water were in the mid 40s, and I have cold sensitive hands, so I was wearing neoprene gloves. I could not operate the iPhone through the dry bag with the neoprene gloves on of course, though stupidly I had failed to anticipate this. We were 5 miles from the nearest shore at that point, and there was no way I was going to create a more dangerous situation by taking the gloves off. Moreover, with one hand grabbing the boat and paddle together, and the other on the phone, this would have been a cumbersome operation. So I operated the phone with the tip of my nose, which is second nature because I have to do that a lot in the winter when it is frigid and the cold screen will not respond to a cold finger. This was a challenge however, between the bobbing of the waves and the need to press through the pocket of air that is inside the dry bag. I was able to initiate a call, but then with the wind noise I was not able to hear much of anything. So my wife hung up and called back, and back and forth a few times, and I eventually just yelled into what I think was her voicemail that I was doing fine. During this clusterfuck the iPhone became inoperable even to the tip of my nose, I think because of water on the dry bag creating a "double touch".  The phone started blinking black then the normal phone screen over and over in a metronomic rhythm and I could not get that to stop. Lesson learned. Phones are not dependable on the water.

On another safety note, One of the 3 of us did need assistance twice. Basically what had happened is that he had put on 15 pounds over the winter, and what was already a tight 4/3 wetsuit became even tighter. His stroke was not great because of the constriction, and then when he fell in he was unable to remount. It was a little ironic because on the drive up there he was saying that he couldn't even remember the last time he had fallen out of his v10. Rescue was nothing more than rafting up to his ski and holding it steady while he climbed on.  But lesson learned: weight gain and wetsuits can be a bad combination.

The other thing I should point out is that two of us put a neon yellow synthetic long sleeve shirt over our wetsuit to increase visibility, and one did not. It does increase visibility noticeably.
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