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--- stories:rudder_loss_10_24_2022 [2023/01/11 03:30]
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+++ stories:rudder_loss_10_24_2022 [2025/03/23 22:11] (current)
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 ===== Rudder Loss on Miller's Run =====
 **Rudder loss on Miller's run\\
-Paul Reavley **10/24/22   #32582
+Paul Reavley **10/24/22 #32582
 Tim Wightman has posted this short video of rudder problems on a Miller's run in a double with his son.
-https://youtu.be/QJtdeJWyNgg
+[[https://youtu.be/QJtdeJWyNgg|https://youtu.be/QJtdeJWyNgg]]
-Check the comments for a detailed account of what happened. \\
+Check the comments for a detailed account of what happened.\\
-Reply\\
+\\
-Like\\
+**Eli Holmes **10/25/22 #32588
-More\\
-Eli Holmes10/25/22   #32588  \\
+Comment section is good and part re not being able to unlock his cell phone due to wet hands.
-Comment section is good and part re not being able to unlock his cell phone due to wet hands.\\
-Reply\\
+**Reivers Dustin **10/25/22 #32590
-Like\\
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+oh em gee. Great post Paul. I see your comments are right on and got great response. That is a cool-hand-Dad and Son.
-Reivers Dustin10/25/22   #32590  \\
-oh em gee.  Great post Paul.  I see your comments are right on and got great response.  That is a cool-hand-Dad and Son.
+In my advancing years I've become more and more fussy about my gear. Ironic that there aren't as many years to advance, but now I guess I'm doing more with less? Old saying from Ranger-Recon, "status of your gear is the status of your life".
+**Paul Reavley **10/25/22 #32591
+One of the things that I wonder about is the degree of damage in the shaft-blade connection that occurred in the initial bump to the rudder and how much may have occurred while using the rudder when it was rubbing against the boat. But this also inclines me to think that I should just replace rudders after even fairly minor collisions where the shaft gets a minor bend that can be easily straightened.
+**Waterman Larry **10/25/22 #32592
-In my advancing years I've become more and more fussy about my gear.  Ironic that there aren't as many years to advance, but now I guess I'm doing more with less?  Old saying from Ranger-Recon, "status of your gear is the status of your life".  \\
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-people liked this\\
-Paul Reavley10/25/22   #32591  \\
-One of the things that I wonder about is the degree of damage in the shaft-blade connection that occurred in the initial bump to the rudder and how much may have occurred while using the rudder when it was rubbing against the boat. But this also inclines me to think that I should just replace rudders after even fairly minor collisions where the shaft gets a minor bend that can be easily straightened. \\
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-Waterman Larry10/25/22   #32592  \\
 DK rudders take the impact, Paul. Some of the used boats I bought came with DK Bellingham weedless rudders. I have used those rudders until I hit a rock breaking their bottom edges. I then have modified them making them straighter and much longer. Up to 14" long. None of Dons remanufactured after impact rudders has ever failed me and I hit bottom A LOT. I have had to self rescue in the Gorge due to the following steering failures:\\
 The yoke hasn't been fastened down onto the rudder shaft securely, allowing the rudder to spin.\\
@@ Line 42: / Line 37: @@
 Larry Goodson
-On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 10:18:13 AM PDT, Paul Reavley <reavley1@...> wrote:
+**Reivers Dustin **10/25/22 #32593
-\\
+The DK's I've seen have a long, flattened section embedded in the rudder material. I think that was common for most rudders. The shaft would break before the rudder would be able to rotate while still attached. However, corrosion overrules. So if there's several impacts that allow salt water into the joint between rudder shaft and rudder material … bets are off. Rudder can let go at any time.
-One of the things that I wonder about is the degree of damage in the shaft-blade connection that occurred in the initial bump to the rudder and how much may have occurred while using the rudder when it was rubbing against the boat. But this also inclines me to think that I should just replace rudders after even fairly minor collisions where the shaft gets a minor bend that can be easily straightened. \\
-Reply\\
-Unlike\\
-More\\
-You liked this\\
-Reivers Dustin10/25/22   #32593  \\
-The DK's I've seen have a long, flattened section embedded in the rudder material.  I think that was common for most rudders.  The shaft would break before the rudder would be able to rotate while still attached.  However, corrosion overrules.  So if there's several impacts that allow salt water into the joint between rudder shaft and rudder material ... bets are off.  Rudder can let go at any time.
-A few years ago David S borrowed a rudder from me because his showed cracks.  He was thinking ahead about this unpredictable failure.  Being a nice guy I tried to give him my kick-ass surf rudder (the one that causes you to self-eject).  He didn't bite.  He got my boring regular spare one.
+A few years ago David S borrowed a rudder from me because his showed cracks. He was thinking ahead about this unpredictable failure. Being a nice guy I tried to give him my kick-ass surf rudder (the one that causes you to self-eject). He didn't bite. He got my boring regular spare one.
-Not sure it's still a thing, but we used to send our damaged rudders to DK for his mad-science experiments.  \\
+Not sure it's still a thing, but we used to send our damaged rudders to DK for his mad-science experiments.
-Reply\\
-Unlike\\
-More\\
-You liked this\\
-Larry Bussinger10/26/22   #32595  \\
-I’ve bent many a rudder shaft back into alignment with the vise.  I’ve never had one fail due to that.
-I borrowed a Carbonology boat at the Gorge one year to see how I liked it.  For some reason the rudder was useless.  I had no control.  At all.  And because of the cap over the yoke, you couldn’t inspect it.  I had to paddle within spitting distance of shore the entire way.  Reivers baby sat me.  I had to sit out a rescue he did because I was a liability.  Haven’t been in a Carbonology boat since.
+**Larry Bussinger **10/26/22 #32595
+I’ve bent many a rudder shaft back into alignment with the vise. I’ve never had one fail due to that.
+I borrowed a Carbonology boat at the Gorge one year to see how I liked it. For some reason the rudder was useless. I had no control. At all. And because of the cap over the yoke, you couldn’t inspect it. I had to paddle within spitting distance of shore the entire way. Reivers baby sat me. I had to sit out a rescue he did because I was a liability. Haven’t been in a Carbonology boat since.
 Larry Bussinger
-From: Paul Reavley\\
+**allipp@…**10/26/22 #32596
-Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2022 10:18 AM\\
-To: Whatcompaddlers@groups.io\\
-Subject: Re: [Whatcompaddlers] Rudder loss on Miller's run
-One of the things that I wonder about is the degree of damage in the shaft-blade connection that occurred in the initial bump to the rudder and how much may have occurred while using the rudder when it was rubbing against the boat. But this also inclines me to think that I should just replace rudders after even fairly minor collisions where the shaft gets a minor bend that can be easily straightened.
+This is somewhat on topic, but not exactly. I'm just wondering if you lost a line on the Vega or Vega Flex, would the built in spring be strong enough to keep at least some tracking ability, or would you just yaw around as if the rudder was spinning loose?
-\\
+**Reivers Dustin **10/26/22 #32597
-Reply\\
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-You liked this\\
-allipp@...10/26/22   #32596  \\
-This is somewhat on topic, but not exactly.  I'm just wondering if you lost a line on the Vega or Vega Flex, would the built in spring be strong enough to keep at least some tracking ability, or would you just yaw around as if the rudder was spinning loose?\\
-Reply\\
-Unlike\\
-More\\
-You liked this\\
-Reivers Dustin10/26/22   #32597  \\
-that is a really great question (about spring return Vega).   When I've lost a rudder cable (without spring center) I was helpless.  Could barely control the boat with legs dragging and strong paddle-steering.  This was in big water.
-So, I am hoping that some other poor slob will test this out.  Not sure losing rudder control on an OC boat is the same kind of catastrophe.
+that is a really great question (about spring return Vega). When I've lost a rudder cable (without spring center) I was helpless. Could barely control the boat with legs dragging and strong paddle-steering. This was in big water.
+So, I am hoping that some other poor slob will test this out. Not sure losing rudder control on an OC boat is the same kind of catastrophe.
+Who can we get to try it out? Allan!!! Go for it big guy! Special project, yay! Uh. don't get hurt man. never mind.
+**allipp@…**10/26/22 #32598
+I think I’ll just try paddling without touching the pedals. Should be the same right? Except for the fact that I can use the pedals if needed 🤷‍♂️😂
+**Paul Reavley **10/26/22 #32599
+I could see that that might be the preferred tactic (leave pedals alone) if you do lose one side, but I would like to know more about the dynamic when/if you try to use the still good side pedal to steer. How fast does the rudder re-center / how long does it keep turning after you stop pressing the pedal? Does this change significantly when you are carrying more speed or are in rougher conditions? Are you guys already relying on this to return your rudder to center or do you always actively recenter with your other foot?
+**Morris Arthur **10/26/22 #32600
-Who can we get to try it out?  Allan!!!  Go for it big guy!  Special project, yay!    Uh.  don't get hurt man.  never mind.  \\
-Reply\\
-Unlike\\
-More\\
-You liked this\\
-allipp@...10/26/22   #32598  \\
-I think I’ll just try paddling without touching the pedals. Should be the same right?  Except for the fact that I can use the pedals if needed 🤷‍♂️😂\\
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-Paul Reavley10/26/22   #32599  \\
-I could see that that might be the preferred tactic (leave pedals alone) if you do lose one side, but I would like to know more about the dynamic when/if you try to use the still good side pedal to steer. How fast does the rudder re-center / how long does it keep turning after you stop pressing the pedal? Does this change significantly when you are carrying more speed or are in rougher conditions? Are you guys already relying on this to return your rudder to center or do you always actively recenter with your other foot?\\
-Reply\\
-Like\\
-More\\
-person liked this\\
-Morris Arthur10/26/22   #32600  \\
 The traditional emergency self-rescue method for a broken rudder cable is:\\
-Keep a small bungie  on-hand or attached to the deck, forward of the rudder yoke.\\
+Keep a small bungie on-hand or attached to the deck, forward of the rudder yoke.\\
 If/when a rudder cable breaks, attach the loose end of the bungie to the side of the yoke with the broken cable.\\
 This should allow you to control the rudder using only the pedal with the non-broken cable.
@@ Line 116: / Line 84: @@
 -Morris
-toggle quoted messageShow quoted text\\
+**beau whitehead **10/26/22 #32601
-Reply\\
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-beau whitehead10/26/22   #32601  \\
 That does work, if you have a) a yoke and b) if you have an exposed yoke. Ozone boats have neither. The Carbonology in the video also does not have an exposed yoke.
@@ Line 127: / Line 92: @@
 (I haven’t had the bad fortune to try this one)
-Reply\\
+**allipp@…**10/26/22 #32602
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+Apparently there are places that require the yoke to be covered. That's why Carbonology and Fenn have covers over their yokes. When I owned those skis, I removed the covers and left them off. Not so much so that I could use the bungy gizmo, but more so to keep salt water from getting trapped in there and corroding everything.
-allipp@...10/26/22   #32602  \\
-Apparently there are places that require the yoke to be covered.  That's why Carbonology and Fenn have covers over their yokes. When I owned those skis, I removed the covers and left them off.  Not so much so that I could use the bungy gizmo, but more so to keep salt water from getting trapped in there and corroding everything.\\
+**Paul Reavley **10/26/22 #32603
-Reply\\
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-person liked this\\
-Paul Reavley10/26/22   #32603  \\
 Yes - with the Ozone boats the whole cap rotates with the rudder. I don't know is it's really necessary, but some time ago I added small rope loops to my OC rudder cap on each side of the cap that I could hook into with a bungie gizmo if ever needed. Haven't had to use them.

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