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stories:safety_coast_guard_rescue [2020/02/27 18:29]
preavley created 		stories:safety_coast_guard_rescue [2025/03/23 22:11] (current)
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-==== Safety ====+<<​stories:​monday_madness_12_11_2006|Previous Story^stories:​bellingham_stories|Story List ^ stories:​kafuffle|Next Story>>​ 
 + 
 +===== Safety ​/ Coast Guard Rescue =====
  
 **Erik Borgnes** \\ **Erik Borgnes** \\
-12/​16/​06 ​ #2244+12/16/06 #2244
  
 Some comments from the peanut gallery: Some comments from the peanut gallery:
  
-There is a fine line between the perception of wrecklessness and that\\ +There is a fine line between the perception of wrecklessness and that of extreme skill as seen in an alpinist like Ed Viesteurs (sp?). The trick is to get that experience and skill while looking better or more skilled or safer to the public than you really are. The problem with ski paddling is that we tend to "go up the mountain"​ during a storm. You'd never find Ed Viesteurs doing the same. The only way around that problem is to educate the public / Coasties that surf is the idea, not flatwater.
-of extreme skill as seen in an alpinist like Ed Viesteurs (sp?​). ​ The\\ +
-trick is to get that experience and skill while looking better or more\\ +
-skilled or safer to the public than you really are.  The problem with\\ +
-ski paddling is that we tend to "go up the mountain"​ during a storm.\\ +
-You'd never find Ed Viesteurs doing the same.  The only way around that\\ +
-problem is to educate the public / Coasties that surf is the idea, not\\ +
-flatwater.+
  
-If the Coasties raise some concern for plucking live paddlers off the\\ +If the Coasties raise some concern for plucking live paddlers off the water, it's probably going to amount to less than if they plucked dead paddlers off the water.
-water, it's probably going to amount to less than if they plucked dead\\ +
-paddlers off the water.+
  
-You folks in Bellingham are some of the most prepared paddlers\\ +You folks in Bellingham are some of the most prepared paddlers safety-wise out there. You are also probably a denser group ( in # of ski paddlers per area) than in any other US locale, so chances are that you'll have more "​mishaps"​ if you look at numbers of incidents only.
-safety-wise out there. ​ You are also probably a denser group ( in # of\\ +
-ski paddlers per area) than in any other US locale, so chances are that\\ +
-you'll have more "​mishaps"​ if you look at numbers of incidents only.+
  
-It wasn't too long ago when most all you Bellingham paddlers (me\\ +It wasn't too long ago when most all you Bellingham paddlers (me included) only paddled when it was flat and would never venture out in conditions that you now look forward to. As a group, you are just finding your limits and discovering how you'll approach / handle the stronger storm conditions in terms of rules, intentions.
-included) only paddled when it was flat and would never venture out in\\ +
-conditions that you now look forward to.  As a group, you are just\\ +
-finding your limits and discovering how you'll approach / handle the stronger storm conditions in terms of rules, intentions.+
  
-I don't know if you all have held group rescue training in the storm\\ +I don't know if you all have held group rescue training in the storm conditions in a controlled situation. It wouldn'​t be too much fun to intentionally dump your ski in cold storm waves, but until you've done it many times without assistance, you can't really say that you're prepared. Situations that I would practice would be the obvious solo capsize recovery until it's really easy, live paddler recovery (i.e. ski blew away and the "in water" paddler needs to get on the rear deck of another ski to be towed in), cold water swim in paddling gear (how many of us really know if we can make that 200 yd swim to shore in winter storm waves?) Practice dumping out of the ski and radio'​ing to someone on shore to see how easy (or hard) that really is. Dump out of the ski while using a paddle leash, let go of the paddle, and see if you really can swim faster than your ski is blowing. You can't? maybe switch to a leg leash in those conditions. And, obviously, these all need to be practiced in storm conditions as they are about the only conditions that these situations will arise, right? Part of the objective of the practice would be in gaining the skills and knowing everyone'​s limits. The other part would be in gaining self-confidence which is probably just as important as panic will sink you out there. It could also be great PR with the Coasties and the local community to have a big controlled practice on the water during the next storm I would think. Maybe.
-conditions in a controlled situation. ​ It wouldn'​t be too much fun to\\ +
-intentionally dump your ski in cold storm waves, but until you've done\\ +
-it many times without assistance, you can't really say that you're\\ +
-prepared. ​ Situations that I would practice would be the obvious solo\\ +
-capsize recovery until it's really easy, live paddler recovery (i.e.\\ +
-ski blew away and the "in water" paddler needs to get on the rear deck\\ +
-of another ski to be towed in), cold water swim in paddling gear (how\\ +
-many of us really know if we can make that 200 yd swim to shore in\\ +
-winter storm waves?​) ​ Practice dumping out of the ski and radio'​ing to\\ +
-someone on shore to see how easy (or hard) that really is.  Dump out of\\ +
-the ski while using a paddle leash, let go of the paddle, and see if\\ +
-you really can swim faster than your ski is blowing. ​ You can'​t? ​ maybe\\ +
-switch to a leg leash in those conditions. ​ And, obviously, these all\\ +
-need to be practiced in storm conditions as they are about the only\\ +
-conditions that these situations will arise, right? ​ Part of the\\ +
-objective of the practice would be in gaining the skills and knowing\\ +
-everyone'​s limits. ​ The other part would be in gaining self-confidence\\ +
-which is probably just as important as panic will sink you out there.\\ +
-It could also be great PR with the Coasties and the local community to\\ +
-have a big controlled practice on the water during the next storm I\\ +
-would think. ​ Maybe.+
  
-The enigma with the safety gear like a radio is that while you need it,\\ +The enigma with the safety gear like a radio is that while you need it, you should never plan to need it. The focus should always be on how to avoid needing it - like the smoke detectors in your house. Reminds me of tree skiing (snow this time). If you focus on the trees, sooner or later you're going to hit one of them. Instead, focus on the empty spaces.
-you should never plan to need it.  The focus should always be on how to\\ +
-avoid needing it - like the smoke detectors in your house. ​ Reminds me\\ +
-of tree skiing (snow this time). ​ If you focus on the trees, sooner or\\ +
-later you're going to hit one of them.  Instead, focus on the empty\\ +
-spaces.+
  
 Respectfully,​\\ Respectfully,​\\
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 **Larry Goolsby** \\ **Larry Goolsby** \\
-12/​16/​06 ​ #2245+12/16/06 #2245
  
-Paddlers.....I have the fear that if we have any more mishaps on the\\ +Paddlers…..I have the fear that if we have any more mishaps on the water (2 in 15 days) that the Coasties will dictate to us when we can and can't be on the water. Don't doubt that they can't do this because they can. They recently made Joost get on their boat and '​accept'​ a ride back in even though he wasn't distressed or in need of assistance. We didn't start having issues (rescues) until we started doing these downwind runs from Larabee to Fairhaven. In both cases the winds increased after paddlers put in at Larabee. So even if you see that the winds are doing 20 mph when you leave, they can become 60 before you get to Post Point. I found that the Bellingham Cold Storage Bay Cam wind gauge cannot be trusted because I have seen 50+ conditions off Post Point and the Bay Cam recorded a max of 39. The shore along Clark'​s Wall acts like a wind tunnel with these strong southerly winds so you must assume that conditions will be worse than they appear from Marine Park. Before we started doing these down wind runs, we always had to paddle upwind first before we got the ride downwind. If we couldn'​t get our boats past the Point then we played near the drydock. Maybe it should be that if you can't paddle your boat upwind, you don't go downwind? Skill level is huge safety factor. Only about 10% (or less) of the local paddlers can handle '​almost'​ anything. However, none of us can handle everything. There are limitations to what all of us can do and not only do you need to know your limitations but your partner needs to know them also. Just don't assume because someone is fast on flatwater that he/she is a good rough water paddler.\\ 
-water (2 in 15 days) that the Coasties will dictate to us when we can\\ +Now the partner thing. I am a strong advocate for the buddy system. You may not be able to do much to help your buddy except be a landmark for where the Coast Guard can find him. Reivers and I found this out when we assisted Terry in the first rescue. The buddy system means being within sight of EACH OTHER at all times. Reivers and I are quite good at staying parallel with each other and maintaining eye contact. Too many times I have seen two paddlers together with one over 100 feet in front of the other. If the guy in the rear had a problem the other guy would have no way of knowing. With two paddlers, you have twice the radios and other safety equipment. If you find that you have surfed ahead of your partner, you skip the next couple of waves and allow them to catch up. Not a lot of fun but it helps.\\ 
-and can't be on the water. Don't doubt that they can't do this\\ +My second to last point is the path that you choose. I think if you do a downwind run, once you pass Govenor'​s Point, you should be aiming for Post Point. I know that the bigger and better waves are further to the west of Clark'​s wall but if you want to land at Fairhaven, you need to be reasonably close to Post point when you get that far north. This isn't necessary all the time but when the wind and waves are big, you are better off being near the shore than a 1/2 mile out when you get close to the end of your trip. And another point (it's hard to stop when you are on a roll). 
-because they can. They recently made Joost get on their boat\\ + 
-and '​accept'​ a ride back in even though he wasn't distressed or in\\ +Clothing. There was an event a few years ago in Puget Sound where a kayaker lost his boat in a storm and bobbed around in his drysuit for almost 24 hours before bumping into an island. Even with half a wetsuit (like most of us wear), you will be so cold after 15 minutes in the water that remounting is difficult and balance is near impossible (another lesson learned on Thanksgiving day). We might just have to bite the bullet and start wearing these suits when the conditions get big. Leashes? We have already beat this issue to a pulp so enough said.\\
-need of assistance. We didn't start having issues (rescues) until we\\ +
-started doing these downwind runs from Larabee to Fairhaven. In both\\ +
-cases the winds increased after paddlers put in at Larabee. So even\\ +
-if you see that the winds are doing 20 mph when you leave, they can\\ +
-become 60 before you get to Post Point. I found that the Bellingham\\ +
-Cold Storage Bay Cam wind gauge cannot be trusted because I have seen\\ +
-50+ conditions off Post Point and the Bay Cam recorded a max of 39.\\ +
-The shore along Clark'​s Wall acts like a wind tunnel with these\\ +
-strong southerly winds so you must assume that conditions will be\\ +
-worse than they appear from Marine Park. Before we started doing\\ +
-these down wind runs, we always had to paddle upwind first before we\\ +
-got the ride downwind. If we couldn'​t get our boats past the Point\\ +
-then we played near the drydock. Maybe it should be that if you can't\\ +
-paddle your boat upwind, you don't go downwind?\\ +
-Skill level is huge safety factor. Only about 10% (or less) of the\\ +
-local paddlers can handle '​almost'​ anything. However, none of us can\\ +
-handle everything. There are limitations to what all of us can do and\\ +
-not only do you need to know your limitations but your partner needs\\ +
-to know them also. Just don't assume because someone is fast on\\ +
-flatwater that he/she is a good rough water paddler.\\ +
-Now the partner thing. I am a strong advocate for the buddy system.\\ +
-You may not be able to do much to help your buddy except be a\\ +
-landmark for where the Coast Guard can find him. Reivers and I found\\ +
-this out when we assisted Terry in the first rescue. The buddy system\\ +
-means being within sight of EACH OTHER at all times. Reivers and I\\ +
-are quite good at staying parallel with each other and maintaining\\ +
-eye contact. Too many times I have seen two paddlers together with\\ +
-one over 100 feet in front of the other. If the guy in the rear had a\\ +
-problem the other guy would have no way of knowing. With two\\ +
-paddlers, you have twice the radios and other safety equipment. If\\ +
-you find that you have surfed ahead of your partner, you skip the\\ +
-next couple of waves and allow them to catch up. Not a lot of fun but\\ +
-it helps.\\ +
-My second to last point is the path that you choose. I think if you\\ +
-do a downwind run, once you pass Govenor'​s Point, you should be\\ +
-aiming for Post Point. I know that the bigger and better waves are\\ +
-further to the west of Clark'​s wall but if you want to land at\\ +
-Fairhaven, you need to be reasonably close to Post point when you get\\ +
-that far north. This isn't necessary all the time but when the wind\\ +
-and waves are big, you are better off being near the shore than a 1/2\\ +
-mile out when you get close to the end of your trip.\\ +
-And another point (it's hard to stop when you are on a roll).\\ +
-Clothing. There was an event a few years ago in Puget Sound where a\\ +
-kayaker lost his boat in a storm and bobbed around in his drysuit for\\ +
-almost 24 hours before bumping into an island. Even with half a\\ +
-wetsuit (like most of us wear), you will be so cold after 15 minutes\\ +
-in the water that remounting is difficult and balance is near\\ +
-impossible (another lesson learned on Thanksgiving day). We might\\ +
-just have to bite the bullet and start wearing these suits when the\\ +
-conditions get big.\\ +
-Leashes? We have already beat this issue to a pulp so enough said.\\+
 Larry G. Larry G.
  
 **Pmarcus** \\ **Pmarcus** \\
-12/​16/​06 ​ #2246+12/16/06 #2246
  
-I am sure you don't need to hear more...but on the NOAA weather site you can pull up weather stations outside our area and see the highest wind velocity before it gets to the "​Bay."​ (see what's coming....) for example just the other day with the big blow on the way Astoria and Hoquim had recorded gusts up in the sixties while we had relatively calm Bay conditions.....also if you haven'​t figured it out yet, our Bay is unique when it blows hard. Wind ripping down the straits from the West and ripping from the South, Southeast across the Skagit flats and act like an air hockey puck boucing off Chuckanut ​ Mountain ​ and can build into the Bay.....this doesn'​t factor in the rain, which we had a bit of.....all flowing out of the rivers AGAINST the wind building into waves that the "​fearsome foursome"​ saw the other day. The info is always out there, just how you want to read it.......Oh yeah, the Coast Guard will and can send you a bill if they deem it reckless......as for Joost, he was probably just paddling normal in this kind of weather...short sleeves, shorts, no booties and his life jacket strapped to the back of his boat......ya, fur sure, you betcha!!! ​    ​Happy Holiday'​s.....Peter+I am sure you don't need to hear more…but on the NOAA weather site you can pull up weather stations outside our area and see the highest wind velocity before it gets to the "​Bay."​ (see what's coming….) for example just the other day with the big blow on the way Astoria and Hoquim had recorded gusts up in the sixties while we had relatively calm Bay conditions…..also if you haven'​t figured it out yet, our Bay is unique when it blows hard. Wind ripping down the straits from the West and ripping from the South, Southeast across the Skagit flats and act like an air hockey puck boucing off Chuckanut Mountain and can build into the Bay…..this doesn'​t factor in the rain, which we had a bit of…..all flowing out of the rivers AGAINST the wind building into waves that the "​fearsome foursome"​ saw the other day. The info is always out there, just how you want to read it…….Oh yeah, the Coast Guard will and can send you a bill if they deem it reckless……as for Joost, he was probably just paddling normal in this kind of weather…short sleeves, shorts, no booties and his life jacket strapped to the back of his boat……ya, fur sure, you betcha!!! Happy Holiday'​s…..Peter
  
 \\ \\
-**Michael Hammer <​michaelhammer62@...>** \\ +**Michael Hammer <​michaelhammer62@…>** \\ 
-12/​17/​06 ​ #2248+12/17/06 #2248
  
-Larry and Peter are right on the mark.  The Coast Guard does have the option of deferring costs to the rescued. ​ Let's look at some numbers for fun.  Note; The following costs are estimates and are for equipment only and do not include people hours or the additional efforts of local agencies involved.\\+Larry and Peter are right on the mark. The Coast Guard does have the option of deferring costs to the rescued. Let's look at some numbers for fun. Note; The following costs are estimates and are for equipment only and do not include people hours or the additional efforts of local agencies involved.\\
 \\ \\
 Coast Guard C-130 aircraft ~ $4,244 per hour\\ Coast Guard C-130 aircraft ~ $4,244 per hour\\
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 CG small craft ~ $300 to $400 per hour\\ CG small craft ~ $300 to $400 per hour\\
 \\ \\
-I have a copy of a press release from Florida that involved an 8 hour search for a missing "​wingsailer"​. ​ The search involved one 25 foot rescue boat, two 47 foot rescue boots, three rescue helicopters and one C-130 aircraft. ​ The estimated cost to the taxpayers is around $100,​000. ​ Again, this is for equipment only.\\+I have a copy of a press release from Florida that involved an 8 hour search for a missing "​wingsailer"​. The search involved one 25 foot rescue boat, two 47 foot rescue boots, three rescue helicopters and one C-130 aircraft. The estimated cost to the taxpayers is around $100,000. Again, this is for equipment only.\\
 \\ \\
-As the elite paddlers of a rapidly increasing sport you have an obligation to set the standard for safety. ​ New people coming in to surfskiing are looking to you to set the example.\\+As the elite paddlers of a rapidly increasing sport you have an obligation to set the standard for safety. New people coming in to surfskiing are looking to you to set the example.\\
 \\ \\
-I believe that standard operating guidelines should be developed in conjunction with the Coast Guard and local agencies to indicate a willingness to address this safety issue. ​ These guidelines should be readily available to everyone. ​ Finally, the guidelines should be strictly followed to develop credibility as experts in the sport.\\+I believe that standard operating guidelines should be developed in conjunction with the Coast Guard and local agencies to indicate a willingness to address this safety issue. These guidelines should be readily available to everyone. Finally, the guidelines should be strictly followed to develop credibility as experts in the sport.\\
 \\ \\
 Mike Mike
  
-**Philip Paris-Browne <​philippb@...>** \\ +**Philip Paris-Browne <​philippb@…>** \\ 
-12/​17/​06 ​ #2250+12/17/06 #2250
  
 Bellingham Paddlers,\\ Bellingham Paddlers,\\
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 \\ \\
 **Reivers Dustin** \\ **Reivers Dustin** \\
-12/​18/​06 ​ #2254+12/18/06 #2254
  
 Mike, Mike,
  
-I have an allergy to those who preach. ​ Most of the time I'm pretty\\ +I have an allergy to those who preach. Most of the time I'm pretty laid back.
-laid back.+
  
-As I've said in earlier discussion: ​ safety nazi's save lives by\\ +As I've said in earlier discussion: safety nazi's save lives by denying life. Although it's true that some would choose a different death, many would not. If you quietly observe many in the crisis response role, you'll see that these folks enjoy thier work and the inherent risks and practice the mountain climbing/4×4 runs/ etc. away from the job. At the same time these folks (and the public) do not acknowledge the "​victims"​ choices or involvement. This is not a case of paddlers going out there in blue jeans w/o spray skirts.
-denying life.  Although it's true that some would choose a different\\ +
-death, many would not.  If you quietly observe many in the crisis\\ +
-response role, you'll see that these folks enjoy thier work and the\\ +
-inherent risks and practice the mountain climbing/4x4 runs/ etc. away\\ +
-from the job.  At the same time these folks (and the public) do not\\ +
-acknowledge the "​victims"​ choices or involvement. ​ This is not a case\\ +
-of paddlers going out there in blue jeans w/o spray skirts.+
  
-Please do not place my life in hostage to my death. ​ I choose, not\\ +Please do not place my life in hostage to my death. I choose, not you.
-you.+
  
 This embarrassed lady does not know me. This embarrassed lady does not know me.
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 rd rd
  
-**Michael Hammer <​michaelhammer62@...>​** \\ 
-12/​18/​06 ​ #2257 
- 
-Reivers,\\ 
-\\ 
-While Sharon'​s perspective is not one that I share, I do respect her right to self expression. ​ As was indicated in previous postings, this event has gained widespread attention. ​ Perhaps their are others that share her view.  Can this be addressed somehow, or does it not matter? ​ Is education the key?\\ 
-\\ 
-As you know, I am one of the crisis response folks of which you speak. ​ I do enjoy my job.  We practice high angle, low angle, water, confined space, haz-mat, vehicle extrication,​ wildland, EMS, firefighting and other skills. ​ Jacks of all trades and masters of none.  And yes, these skills get practiced away from work.  We generally refer to rescued individuals as "​patients"​ and not "​victims"​. ​ These two terms conjure up different pictures in peoples minds. ​ "​Patient"​ is viewed as more positive.\\ 
-\\ 
-Mike\\ 
 \\ \\
 **Brad Clements** \\ **Brad Clements** \\
-12/​18/​06 ​ #2258+12/18/06 #2258
  
 I am just grateful that I still have the opportunity to paddle these guys. I am just grateful that I still have the opportunity to paddle these guys.
Line 202: Line 93:
 Brad Brad
  
-Larry Bussinger <​lbussing@...>\\ +**Larry Bussinger <​lbussing@…>\\ 
-12/​18/​06 ​ #2259+12/18/06 #2259**
  
-Don't you mean paddle "​with"​ these guy'​s? ​ Or are you starting some new\\ +Don't you mean paddle "​with"​ these guy's? Or are you starting some new kind of Canadian thing?
-kind of Canadian thing?+
  
 \\ \\
-**Michael Hammer <​michaelhammer62@...>** \\ +**Michael Hammer <​michaelhammer62@…>** \\ 
-12/​18/​06 ​ #2261+12/18/06 #2261
  
-If these guys like to be paddled, hey, who am I to judge. ​ To each his own, live and let live.+If these guys like to be paddled, hey, who am I to judge. To each his own, live and let live.
  
-Brad Clements\\ +**Brad Clements** \\ 
-12/​18/​06 ​ #2264+12/18/06 #2264
  
 Larry, Larry,
Line 222: Line 112:
  
 Brad Brad
- 
-**Larry Goolsby** \\ 
-12/​18/​06 ​ #2263 
- 
-Paddlers....As a moderator of this site I felt that I needed to\\ 
-intervene when someone posted that as a paddler they were emarassed\\ 
-by our actions. What if everytime someone posted an incident, other\\ 
-members were quick to critisize and post their thoughts. I know if I\\ 
-posted the incident on Thanksgiving Day and you guys shuned me for\\ 
-it, I would think twice about posting another incident. We are all\\ 
-entitled to our opinions but if members start chastising other\\ 
-members, it will cause other members to refrain from posting their\\ 
-incidents. We need these incidents because this is a relatively new\\ 
-sport and we are still learning our limitations. We have 112 members\\ 
-now and I suspect that there are a considerable amount of members\\ 
-that don't race or paddle an outrigger or surfski. You have to\\ 
-understand that we like to go fast. We steal power from the wind,\\ 
-waves, boat wakes and each other. If this doesn'​t sound like the same\\ 
-sport that you are involved in, then maybe you are logged into the\\ 
-wrong site. We need to hear about these incidents in order to make\\ 
-this sport safer for everyone.\\ 
-Larry Goolsby 
  
  

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