Surfski Knowledge Base

Phil Helms
11/04/13 #15115

Anyone have a decent used wetsuit they're willing to sell? Looking for men's medium tfor this rookie to stay warm(er) this winter. Also interested in what others are using and pros/cons. I'm in a V10 Sport

Thanks

Phil

Reivers Dustin

11/04/13 #15117

Not many use a full-on wetsuit. Usually wetsuit pants built for paddling (ref, NRS “hydroskin” or “Rodeo”). Then layers on top, such as thin rash-guard and then Mysterioso or similar type shirt.

I have a full wetsuit I would love to sell, but it's more for maybe SUP, paddleboard, or swimming.

An option for many is drysuit. This is ideal for immersion dress, or for below freezing windy days. But it's a challenge to modulate your temperature using layers underneath. A more important compromise is the ability to swim. There is a valid arguement for being able to swim to safety. With a drysuit, you make that a poorer option due to the mechanics of the suit. Compared to wetsuit, that is.

rd

bill
11/04/13 #15118

I’m using a 3/2 mm full suit for any conditions where it might be difficult to get back in the boat. Other than that its separate tops and bottoms. 2mm “NRS rodeo pants” and ether a NRS “hydroskin“ top or a 1.5 mm O’Neill “”hyperfreak” top. The new top of the line full suits are very strechy and warm and i don’t really notice I’m wearing it when I’m paddling it in rough water. Its not very fun on flat water though where i do notice restrictions.The flatter the water the more i notice it. I don’t really like my drysuit for paddling. Beside roasting i find it restricts my stroke with all the bulky fabric and is terrible to swim in. Even remounting the ski seems harder/heaver with all the water poring off all the folds and pockets of the drysuit. I haven’t tested my wetsuit in the sounds chilly water but I’m guessing i would still be fully functional if a bit chilly after an hour in the water. I spent 30 min doing remounts the other day in lake union and was still warm. The lake is in the high 50’s at the moment. Warmer than the sound but cold enough to give you an idea. Another nice thing about the newer wetsuits is just how ‘dry’ they are. It took 5+ min for water to make its way to my core area and after 30+ minuets in the water there were still dry areas on my back and legs. Part of what makes a good wetsuit warm is just how little water is exchanged. Top of the line suits are not cheep but worth it. *tip*.. don’t get a suit with a ’skin’ side on the torso. I find it sticks to my PFD restricting my rotation. The 3/2 mm thickness is a compromise for me. My thinking is if i can’t get back on my ski in 30 min then its most like i won’t make it on any time after and its time to call for help. It should be enough insolation to keep me alive for another 2 hour+ no problem…. Cold, but alive. I also carry this in my PFD just for good measure http://www.nrs.com/product/2025/nrs-mystery-sea-hood I will put it on right away if I’m chilly or I’m having any difficulties getting back on the ski.

At least thats my plan…. YMMV.

Bill

Reivers Dustin

11/04/13 #15119

whoa: sea hood really caught my eye. I wonder how many more of my brain cells would be alive today if I'd had something for my head during those times I was having a spot of bother. Here's one for you: if you are good in the boat, but slow down to help and assist, then you aren't excersizing. The engine is on idle and not making heat. I've been colder paddling along beside an unsure paddler than when I was the one in a tight spot about to “see God” you might say. I need one of these hoods in my kit even though it would ruin my rep as a classy dresser. …rd

Michael Gregory
11/04/13 #15120

Wetsuits work by allowing a thin layer of water between the skin and the neoprene suit. That thin water layer is warmed by the body heat and insulated by the neoprene. “Nothing comes between me and my wetsuit;)” How's that for a mnemonic device.

There are many full wetsuits around built for swimmers. They are not appropriate for paddlers as they constrict the paddlers arm/shoulder movement as well as rotation of the trunk.

A reasonable remedy is a “farmer john” sleeveless wetsuit overlaid with a neoprene pull-over top. NRS Mysterioso is a fine example. Separate top and bottom allows for better rotation and a paddle specific top helps with shoulder/arm movement.

ProMotion Wetsuits currently has some “Farmer John” wetsuits in their clearance bin for about $100. Screamin deal!

Mike.

Michael Gregory
11/04/13 #15121

Reivers, you can try my hood. Yeah, and we can take a lot of pictures to show around. You won't mind, will ya?

duncanhowat
11/04/13 #15122

Oh, I don't know RD, with that hood on and your ear's plastered to your head , taking away that much windage might pick up your speed at least 1-2 mph. I can now see you hitting 8.5 to 9.5 all the time Yiikes. Also I have a wet suit for sale so thick that a 22 caliber bullet could not go through it. It's for Kiting, and I may retire from that sport while I'm still alive. You could float in the water all the way to Elisa and still be sweating, Could be used to dive in the Arctic if you tied a engine block to your self to get down. But good for learning. D

allipp01
11/05/13 #15123

A full wetsuit is usually too restricting and hot for paddling. I'd recommend a Farmer John, which you can get new online from Amazon for around $100. If you do want a full wetsuit, BKB has some great closeout deals.

http://www.kitepaddlesurf.com/Wetsuits_c35.htm

Tom Swetish
11/05/13 #15124

Reminds me of a very funny e-bay posting for a used wetsuit that went viral a few years ago.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/16/ebay-wetsuit-bear-urinal/

I almost always use a full wetsuit out on the bay. Primarily an Excel 4/3. I am a bit biased toward rough water days and not flat distance though so I don't tend to overheat. But like they say, nobody has ever had to be rescued by the cost guard because they were too hot. Great opportunity to combine a cool-down and remount practice as well.

-Tom

bill

11/05/13 #15127

At the risk of irritating a few people ( not my intention) I would like to comment on a few statements that I don't think are necessarily true. One is that wetsuits work better with a thin layer of water in them. It is my understanding that this is not true. The less water the better and no water is best. Water is a much better heat conductor than air and transfers your body heat to the neoprene to be lost into the water quicker than air. This is why loos fitting 3/2's are colder than tight fitting 3/2's and semi dry 3/2’s are again warmer and 3/2’s drysuits the warmest. The water keeps you warm because you warm it up myth is just that. Water has no insulation value, quite the opposite .

The only reason triathlon/swimmer suits don't work that well for paddling is that they are all skin (sticky) and have there neoprene thickness placed for flotation requirements over insulation values. There very stretchy and are designed mobility for swimming transfers nicely for paddling. It's the other 'features' that work well for triathlons but don't work too well for paddling. Surfing suits are better for paddling IMHO because of there more durable and less sticky, focused on warmth over flotation, incorporate swimming mobility and now use just as soft and stretchy neoprene.

Before the naysayers convince you that one piece suits are too restrictive, try one out for yourself, something like an O'Neill Psycho 1 in a 3/2 or other brand equivalent. You will be amazed at how soft and stretchy they are. While farmer Jons are nice they leave a lot to be desired. Once you hit the water they flush way too much water and are just not very warm. That was one of the issues with an incident down here in Seattle a bit over a month ago. Too many swims with farmer Jon's on resulted in a very cold paddler. You can put hydroskin or whatever you want over the top to limit flushing but then you have neoprene over neoprene negating much of the flexibility once had with just the farmer Jon. In the event of putting the immersion insulation to work, a full suit is much, much warmer in the water than farmer Jon's, there is no comparison. I'm a firm believer that the new generation of neoprene is much softer and less restrictive than ever before making them appropriate and surprisingly good for paddling in conditions that merit extra caution. For example, the 3mm torso on the O'neill psycho 1 is a lot softer/stretchier than the 3mm neoprene on the torso on the NRS 3.0 Ultra Jon's, NRS's top of the line Jon's. Also, my O' Neil 1.5 mm hyperfreak neoprene long sleeve top is a bit stretchier that my NRS .5mm hydroskin top and a lot warmer, especially if you in the drink. When I use the hyperfreak I don't even notice I have it on even in flat water with nothing else to think about but a good stroke. It's like having my hydroskin on but much warmer. The 3/2 Psycho 1 suit is only .5 mm thicker in the arms and shoulders. The “technobutter” neoprene (O'neill) used in both the garments mentioned above is amazing stuff. I'm only referencing O'neill because they fit me better. All the leading brands have new super soft/stretchy equivalent neoprene options in there top of the line models.

As for over heating, that's why I have a 3/2.. It's a compromise. I don't get too hot in it unless I'm at race pace. If I had a 4/3 on I would roast and they begin to feel thick to me. Anything less than 3/2 wouldn't work very well for immersion protection and I might get cold in it when not paddling hard on a chilly day. My suit is not for all paddling, just the rough stuff and for that I haven't found anything better….. Yet.

I responded because I don't think full suits should be dismissed out right. They are far better now than just a few years ago and for *me* are the right choice for some but not all conditions. Just be sure you make your choice an educated one and one that's right for you.

For me these clothing items cover me for the northwest to my satisfaction… Sort of. (not including shoes and gloves)

Patagonia R1 full suit, ( O'neill psycho 1 is softer/stretchier)
1.5 mm O'neill hyperfreak top ( really liking this top!)
Hydroskin long sleeve top
2mm NRS rodeo bottoms
Hydroskin bottoms
Hydroskin shorts

Bill

Michael Gregory

11/05/13 #15128

I do appreciate this discussion and find it timely going into the winter paddling season. I have only a cursory response.

Interestingly, wetsuits continue to be fabricated out of neoprene because of it's excellent insulating properties and it's flexibility. A properly fit wetsuit captures a good portion of body heat we are generating as we paddle.

Happily, there are many wetsuit designs and manufacturers these days. There are variations in paddling style and intensity. What works for one paddler may not work for another:)
Reivers Dustin

11/05/13 #15129

It would be good if we had a crash-test-dummy who had tested wetsuits in lots of various conditions. But the valuable person with serious bona-fides might not really want to put their C.V. out there. (C.V. = curriculum vitae, or in english “life story”). It's a two edge sword: maybe no one wants to believe all these things really happened to one real life guy or on the other edge, if they believe all those things, then they might not listen to the actual lessons from such a one. So, ok PM, uh I mean LG, no er LB? who was .. Borgnes. That's who we can call on. Erik proly don't even read us any more.

… what's that hon? is my will up to date? aw, these guys be my homies. they laugh at everything I say.

Erik Borgnes
11/06/13 #15130

Count me out, Reivers. Wetsuits can get a bit hot on the erg.

EB

zach

11/06/13 #15132

I'm with bill 100%. New 1 piece suits are amazing and don't restrict movement. Mine exclude water so well they are partially dry on the inside even after a few swims. A farmer john allows a lot of water exchange. I saw Todd Ellison start his last paddle in a farmer john, and failed to offer him the extra 2/3 mm one piece i had brought as a back up, though the thought crossed my mind. Haunts me to this day.

Phil Helms
11/06/13 #15133

Appreciate all the input it's been both entertaining and educational. Just got on this group so wasn't sure what would happen by posting…

I think being a beginner and still swimming, occasionally, I will tryout a full wet suit and see how that works for me. Certainly sounds like a safer way to go at this point.
Thanks all,
Rookie Phil