Surfski Knowledge Base

Brandon Nelson <brandon@…>
04/26/10 #8281

AWESOME race, awesome crowd, awesome day at the park and on the Bay yesterday. Thanks for the great write-ups, too. I put a quick story and some pix (by Mikyn!) up on the blog at: http://chargelife.com/2010/04/2010-dan-harris-challenge-2.html

A post-race accident occurred (at least just one that I know of) that I thought was worth some discussion. I wasn’t there for it, but my boat was.

We’d loaded our boats on the van after the race, then I had to leave for work. A couple hours later, when the vehicle next to our van pulled out, the driver lost track of the bow of his own loaded boat and raked it across a foot or so of my ski’s deck, right behind the seat. Some crunching and some screaming ensued, I was told later, and a few folks helped untangle things. Again, I wasn’t around for it, but I got a few e-mails today from folks who saw it and saw the aftermath, offering condolences. (Hey, we’ve all called them “the other woman!”)

The damage consists of an ugly trench in the foam core. The top layer of carbon is compressed into the trench, but it isn’t cracked. If the damage was on the hull, we’d be doing a repair for sure. On the deck, though, I hesitate to sand or cut into it, or throw filler at it for the sake of trying to restore a fair surface. With the visible carbon cloth, too, I’d have to paint the repair section and/or into the cockpit, and to me that whole process seems just as bad as the damage.

A LOT of us have had our skis and shells and kayaks damaged on the water, on our cars, flying off our cars, filleted open by oars, crushed by motor boats, the Coasties, wind-blown across the beach, slashed by paddle blades and on and on. The occasional story of damage is part of owning super-fragile boats, in one sense. And certainly when we fill up a tight parking lot with a hundred or so of them sticking out beyond our cars’ bumpers, accidents are going to happen.

I guess my question is, when it happens, what’s the fair way to handle it? I realize it’s an individual thing. One guy runs another paddler smack into a pylon, sluffs it off and says, “That’s racing!” Another guy makes a couple tiny gel-coat chips on your side-seam and insists on paying for a full, professional repair, and buying you a beer as well.

In my boat’s case, it’s not damaged to a point I want to add weight and more cosmetic grief by doing a repair, but it certainly devalues the boat the way a big scratch or dent in your car would devalue it at resale. I did buy the boat to paddle and race, not to store X-thousands of dollars like a bank account. Still, it hurts to see “my other, other baby” take a hard hit.

What ever happened with the racer at LaConner last year who’s day ended early when an oar bisected her bow? That was pretty serious damage, if I remember right. Definitely beyond what happened to my boat. But what came of that between the parties, if anyone knows?

Regarding my boat, I’m not looking for “the right answer” here. I just thought since it’s a bit of a gray area – and a sensitive one for a lot of us – it might be interesting to hear some thoughts.

Jeff Hegedus <jhegedus@…>
04/27/10 #8283

Aw man, sorry Brandon, totally. Regarding the question you ask, my own opinion is that when things happen on the road, its different than when banging paddles at the mark. The damage is a super small claim to an insurance company, and the boat should be repaired. It won't be the last time she takes a hit, and these boats get tired fast if not kept up on.

Michael Gregory
04/27/10 #8286

-Very sorry to hear about your boat being damaged. One would think that the other party would step right up and pay for any needed repair, right?
-Structural integrity of your ski, at this point, may be compromised. Depending on the length, depth, and presence of delamination associated with this “trench”. If the outer layer of carbon is allowing ANY moisture to penetrate, that moisture will be absorbed by the core material. You'd be surprised and dismayed by how the core can soak up and hold moisture. My bias would be to get an expert repair right away. A properly done repair should NOT add significant weight to your ski.
-I strongly advise you not to accept any damage to your ski Brandon.
Best, Mike.

Bob Putnam
04/27/10 #8287

Hi Brandon,
If the ski is your V10 Super Elite it is a rare and expensive ski. $6500 to replace that baby….probably more now!! So I would not take damage lightly. Two years back at the Whatcom Classic somebody planted their blade on the back deck of my V10 SE and they dragged it across leaving a big battle scar. Mostly a white mark. I was impressed by the toughness of such a light craft. But I didn't see the offending paddler and I don't think he/she realized what had happened. I just left it. Stuff happens in races that are beyond people's control. But in a parking lot I would say traffic collision rules apply. Seems fair to me. If were your car that was damaged there would be no question.
Bob

Erik Borgnes
04/27/10 #8288

Chiming in from the peanut gallery . . . I agree with Bob's assessment. What happens on the water is decided by sportsmanship and non-sportsmanship and random accidents, and these are one thing for another discussion with each occurrence being different and open to interpretation. In the parking lot, once your boat is strapped down, it becomes part of your car and therefore traffic rules / collision insurance rules would be most appropriate. Any deals from there would use your deductible, insurance monies as the baseline that could be modified if both parties agree to submit or not submit the claim / work something out.

Erik

rlingblo <rlingblo@…>
04/27/10 #8290

First of all … what do I know?! OK, that being said, my first thought is that if someone bumps my ski while on the road (or parking lot) they should be responsible.

BUT, then again … I really don't know the 'legal stuff' about how far our boats can extend from the back (or front) of our vehicles, so I've always wondered if I am at fault if someone hits my boat or not? Is there a law about length? Do we need to have a flag to be legal? Anyone know? Simon? Bueller?

Rick L.

Jim Buchanan <pharm_man001@…>
04/27/10 #8291

Brandon I was sorry to hear about this when we talked on the phone.

I agree with the others. And what if the other car was sitting even lower? Maybe the other ski would have knocked out your window or denting the back of your van instead of damaging you ski. Both cases I think the road collision rules should apply.

jim

Reivers Dustin
04/27/10 #8292

Just regarding repairs - I've chased repairs around some years ago on a boat I don't have any more. It never worked right again. The seal over the core has to be absolutely water tight, as MG says. Alost anything you put on or take away will be different than native materials. In Brandon's case of very exotic construction, the repair craftsmanship is at the really extreme leading edge of composite artisan capability. (Most 'Glass/Epoxy' people will muck it up horribly.)

I've had best luck with vinyl tape (high quality electricians tape) such as 3-M 'Super 88'. This is a slightly thicker version that moves well with surface deformation and remains totally anhydrous. For complex surfaces I would suggest a particular type of high voltage splicing tape. (I have some you can try). This material is a self-vulcanizing rubber with superb shape conformity.

There is an impressive array of electrician's splicing tape in a lot of colors for matching finishes. If you look closely at my old S1-X you might spot some of the taped up dings and cracks.

Of course, since my background is electrical - everything looks like an electrical problem.

rd

Jeff Hegedus <jhegedus@…>
04/27/10 #8293

Sterling will sell you a tube of a one-part air activated styrene based resin called Solarez that works very well for surface dings that break the gel coat, deform the surface laminate, and partially crush the core, but where the interior laminate remains intact. The ding is taped off, sanded slightly for adhesion, filled with resin, and sanded to shape; the resulting surface is flat and smooth to the touch, all moisture is sealed from potential entry, no weight is added, and the local laminate structure is nicely reinforced. It is a good cheap amateur repair; the product is clear, and looks slightly grey on my white hull. Since most of the dings we get are in this category of impact, it is a very good option. Anyone interested can view my boat… it is much better than doing nothing, and much cheaper than full repairs.

MARC ROBERTA WHITLOCK
04/27/10 #8294

Having experienced a hit and run on my ski when it was mounted on my truck, I sure would have liked the chance to exchange insurance data and talk to my insurance company to see whether to file a claim.

Although it was, also, unfortunate for the other party, they were driving a vehicle that struck yours. If it was the other way around, Brandon, I know you would do the right thing and report it to your insurance co.

I'm sorry, too, that this happened to you.

Marc

dnjacobson79
04/27/10 #8295

Great race Brandon, bummer about the boat though…..hurts. I used to hang my slalom boats in my room (no kidding) when I was in mid-school because I didn't want the them exposed to freezing temperatures at night in the winter, so I understand fully the vested relationship you have with you dark horse.

From racing composite slalom boats days, my rules always were:
Paddling my boat and break it, fix the boat a good as new or buy it

Boat to boat damage is part of the game unless there's poor sportsmanship involved

Transport damage (cars/boats/planes), that's why we have insurance - and usually you can do fairly well off a claim if you know what I mean…..

But in the big picture, there are plenty of poor starving kids in Africa, heck, some here in Whatcom County, so we all a very privileged to be able to race boats for recreation.

An Accident Happened… The Resolution
Brandon Nelson <brandon@…>
05/01/10 #8332

Killer race today, All. I’m still struggling to figure out how Anne, Nicole and Ian broken the sound barrier without us mortals hearing a sonic boom, but they pulled it off somehow! Good Golly did they crush it. I’m not complaining: when the lead boats finish so far ahead of the rest of the field that the spectators forget, and think the next pack in are the actual winners and so they cheer like crazy… well that works for me. At any rate, a tiny bit of a race write up is on the blog at http://chargelife.com/2010/05/racing-in-our-living-room-2010-lake-whatcom-classic.html

Also, thanks to everyone who chimed in on the boat ding story from last weekend. I got a chance to talk to Jeff Knakal today at the race, and we talked about how to handle the damage. Over the past week, a few other paddlers had a chance to look at the boat, and everyone agreed that:

1) It was a bummer and it does devalue (or at least de-virgin-ize the boat), but…

2) It wasn’t worth trying to repair because the repair would be even more visible (and heavier) than the damage, and…

3) It’s the kind of thing that somehow, somewhere, someday will happen to almost every boat, but….

4) Knakal owed me SOMETHING!

So today when Jeff and I talked, he offered to fix it. It turns out Jeff really knows what he’s doing with composites, or at least he’s been able to sell Boeing on that fact for some time now. So he is qualified to fix it if that were an option. But I said no deal to that.

Instead, what Jeff and I agreed on is that he owes me a future, professional, Boeing-quality repair. Someday, whether it’s this boat or another, or someone else’s that I (accidentally) and more seriously damage, I’ve got a “free repair” card to redeem at Jeff’s Boat Shop.

And I’m good with that. I know the letter of the law says he’s at fault and can be made to file insurance claims and blah blah blah. I just can’t swallow that and I couldn’t over the course of a week come to envision saying, “Knakal, pay me XXX in cash for future lost re-sale value.” A future repair feels like a boater’s solution, not an insurance adjuster’s, or a cop’s, or Judge Judy’s.

All that being said, I’d think twice about parking next to him at the races! J

Nice racing today, everybody. See you at Deep Cove in two weeks! (Ian, aren’t you due overseas that day?)

Brandon

Re: An Accident Happened… The Resolution
Bob Putnam
05/02/10 #8336

Every surf ski should have a few good “battle scars” on it!
Bp